Lord Caine: Well, my Lords, I said at Second Reading that I was well aware that this legislation had been met with far from universal acclamation, and, if I may say so, the last hour and seven minutes has reminded me of that in spades.
A number of noble Lords were kind enough to reference my role in this legislation. I am particularly grateful to my noble friend Lord Cormack and a former Secretary of State, the noble Lord, Lord Hain. I think one suggested that had it been my Bill it might have been slightly different. That may or may not be the case, but I tried to assure the House at Second Reading that I was committed to working with noble Lords on all sides and to continue engaging with groups outside Northern Ireland to see what could be done to improve the legislation in line with the proper constitutional functions of your Lordships’ House that the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, reminded us of. That is what I have sought to do.
The noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, in moving her amendment—I hope it was inadvertent—cast some doubt on the level of engagement, and the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, referred to it. I can only say that, since the end of July, I have done over 30 meetings—frankly, I have lost count—on legacy with political parties in Northern Ireland, Members of your Lordships’ House, victims’ groups and others. Those meetings have always been frank and candid, and I have sought to listen and take on board as many points as I can. I will continue that engagement and, indeed, I will be doing more such meetings in Northern Ireland next week. That has been a genuine attempt to fulfil the promises I made at Second Reading. Again in response to the noble and right reverend Lord, whom I hold in the highest regard—he is a man of great principle and has made a huge contribution in Northern Ireland over many decades—I say that I believe that the amendments I have brought forward are a reflection of the promises I gave at Second Reading. I am very happy to sit down, at any time, with the noble and right reverend Lord to go through those amendments, but we will be debating them anyway, I hope, at a later stage.
I understand the motive behind the noble Baroness’s amendment. I have long had sympathy with the notion that the Northern Ireland Assembly should have greater involvement in these matters. It was always the position, for many years, that addressing the legacy of the past should be owned and tackled primarily by Northern Ireland’s elected representatives. Some of us remember—it was not that long ago—10 years ago, when the Northern Ireland Executive invited Richard Haass, along with Meghan O’Sullivan, in the aftermath of the flags  protest and difficulties over disputed parades, to address the issue of flags, parading and the past. That initiative was driven by the Northern Ireland Executive, supported by the parties in the Assembly. Unfortunately, as with other attempts to deal with these very difficult issues, that process did not find a consensus, and 12 months later, we found ourselves at Stormont House trying to deal with the same issues.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick and Lady O’Loan, referred to the Stormont House agreement. At the risk of repeating what I said at Second Reading, I was in the room, as it were, for all but a few hours—time off for good behaviour—for about 11 weeks of that entire process. The level of consensus reached there has always been exaggerated. I can well remember the spokesman for the noble Baroness’s former party, the SDLP, opposing just about every line on legacy—she is smiling because she knows to whom I refer—in that agreement as “a dilution” of Haass-O’Sullivan, which was itself a dilution of Eames-Bradley. So the SDLP was not exactly oversold on it. I do not see the noble Lord, Lord Empey, in his place, but the noble Lord, Lord Rogan, is there, and he will attest to the fact that the Ulster Unionist Party did not support the provisions in the Stormont House agreement. So, that is two out of five that opposed it, pretty well right from the outset. Over the years, the level of consensus fell away even further.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am very grateful to noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. As the Minister mentioned fluoridation,  I should just remind the House that I am president of the British Fluoridation Society and patron of the National Water Fluoridation Alliance. I agreed with the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, when she talked about the WHO and preventative measures. The single most important measure would be to introduce fluoridation where it is not present at the moment. I was delighted when the Government took powers back to themselves to do this. I know that progress is being made: I just urge the Government to speed it up.
I also say to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, that she is right to identify the levelling-up Bill. It is a long Bill, but there is room for more amendments in relation to health. There are some already, but I would encourage her to think about that. She and the noble Lord, Lord Allan, raised the issue of the south-west. I had a meeting today with Stonewater, a very large social housing provider, which is very concerned about the lack of housing in the south-west. I would definitely make the link between housing and health, which is a very important issue if we are serious about levelling up.
The noble Lord was right to identify that these problems started before the pandemic, and that we are now facing particular issues, but the underlying structural issues are still not being dealt with. I also agree with him about post-implementation evaluation. I hope that the Minister, when he responds in writing, might be able to say something about that.
My noble friend Lady Merron was absolutely right to hone in on retention and recruitment. Although there are various initiatives, at the moment I do not think enough is being done to retain the profession within NHS dentistry. We need to do very much more about that. Her point about practice information going on the NHS website is really important, and I hope that the Government will respond to it.
Ultimately, it comes back to prioritisation and money, and I was grateful for what the Minister said. I am delighted that his wife is present to hear our debate, and indeed that he is celebrating his father’s 80th birthday. It reminded me that I took my wife with me—for a romantic 50th birthday celebration—to address the Pharmaceutical Services Negotiating Committee dinner. She has never forgotten that or forgiven me for that great sin, nor has she forgiven Alan Milburn for making me do it.
Anyway, the point is that we come back to the workforce strategy, because without a properly funded workforce strategy, with numbers, we will not get anywhere. In the meantime, there is still a lot that can be done to streamline GDC processes, recruit dentists from overseas and, crucially, give dentists currently in the profession but not doing NHS work some confidence that it will be worth their while to do NHS dentistry.
I was very interested in the point the Minister made about the cost for dentists coming into NHS dentistry and starting a new practice. He will, of course, have been interested in what Wes Streeting had to say about the future of primary care. He came in for some criticism for suggesting that maybe the current model of GP partnerships might not always be the right one. He is absolutely right that we have to think rather radically about how we will develop primary care in the future.
The argument for a proper strategy for dental access for NHS patients is very persuasive indeed. Having said that, I thank noble Lords and beg leave to withdraw my Motion.
Motion withdrawn.

Lord Caine: My Lords, as ever, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have participated in this debate.
Responding directly to the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Rogan, and other noble Lords from Northern Ireland, regarding Amendment 33, the Government are very clear that we must set up the commission properly and with the best people to give it the best chance for success. As the Bill is currently drafted, there is no prohibition whatever on the employment of former members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary—which was awarded the George Cross—no prohibition on the employment of former members of the Historical Enquiries Team and no prohibition on former members or current members of the Police Service of Northern Ireland applying to become commission officers. There is no prohibition within the current legislation.
I have made it clear in response to earlier debates that I share the admiration of noble Lords from Northern Ireland for the service and sacrifice of the Royal Ulster Constabulary throughout the Troubles. The figure I have is that 302 officers were murdered in the course of their duties. I have always been struck by the montage that was produced a number of years ago of all those officers, under the banner “Our Murdered Colleagues”, a copy of which I have at home.
Slightly linking to Part 4 of the Bill, where we talk about oral histories, I agree with and share the concern of those noble Lords who believe that the record of the RUC is under sustained attack, mainly from republicans within Northern Ireland. I have said in this House before that what I have described as a pernicious counter-narrative of the Troubles has developed in recent years, which has put the state at the heart of every atrocity and seeks to traduce the record of the Armed Forces and the police. We ought to discuss this.
On that, I can do no better than to commend three volumes of outstanding oral history put together by a very good friend of mine, Colin Breen, beginning with A Force Like No Other: The Real Stories of the RUC Men and Women who Policed the Troubles. Colin is a former serving RUC officer. One of the reasons why those he interviewed were able to open up to him so candidly and vividly was because he is one of their own. Anybody reading those volumes will be struck by stories that range from the comic to the absolutely heartbreaking. I commend that particular oral history to Members of your Lordships’ House.